Peter Dupont是誰？他是丹麥Estate Coffee的Roast Master。
Estate Coffee沒有很悠久的歷史，但是Klaus Thomsen在2006 WBC奪冠，讓他們一舉成名天下知。
很高興也很榮幸我們邀請到Mr. Peter Dupont接受訪談，他不但是一個專業烘焙師，也是很有經驗的barista，藉由他不同角度的觀察與分享，讓我們也能從中得到一些啟發。

上個月Peter跟Klaus已經離開Estate Coffee，合作創業，新公司The Coffee Collective包括烘焙廠與barista訓練課程，我們也祝福他們成功。

近日內編輯室將整理訪談中英對照內容刊出，敬請期待。

BGT：Please describle the signature drink that you won 1st place in the World Barista Championship in 2004, and how long did it take you to create the sig drink?
談談你在04年拿下冠軍的創意飲料。花了多久時間來構思與創作？

Tim： The drink is based on one of my favourite desserts, Tiramisu. I had to make it into a liquid drink because of the rules in the WBC. This was the fun part. I spent over 6 months trying to balance the different ingredients until the drink was perfect. It consisted of a whisked topping made out of marsala syrup, mascarpone cheese, egg yolks and sugar. The coffee I used played a vital role in the drinks taste balance. I managed to find coffee from Mountain Top estate in Australia. This coffee had just the right fruitiness, chocolate aftertaste and loads of sweetness. Fortunately I found this coffee only weeks before the actual championship. On top I drissled orange scented chocolate from Valrhona. All togeather a delicious drink where the coffee flavour was the dominating aftertaste and the topping contributed with a creamy and airy mouthfeel.
創意的源頭來自於我最喜歡的甜點之一～提拉米蘇。因為WBC的規則限制，我必須把它轉變成一種飲料，從固體到液體，正是整個創意過程中最有意思的部份。一共花了我超過六個月的時間，讓所有的原料做一個完美的組成，包括marsala糖漿、mascarpone起司、蛋黃和糖，而我所選用的咖啡在整杯飲料的味覺平衡裡，更是扮演一個最關鍵的角色。我選擇澳洲Mountain Top莊園的咖啡，它有我要的水果風味、巧克力餘韻，也提供豐富的甜度。幸運的是我終於在正式比賽前幾星期取得了這個咖啡。我在最上面還灑了少量的來自法國的法芙娜橙香巧克力。最後，有著絕佳咖啡風味當做背景主體，並結合上層滑順的乳脂與發泡後的輕盈質感，我的創意飲料就這麼誕生了。


BGT： Many coffee people think about that the Scandiavian espresso blend almost with the highest reputation in the world , what do you think? And how did you creat a good espresso blend?
斯堪地那維亞幾乎已是全球咖啡人公認espresso最高水平的地區，你個人怎樣看待這件事？而你對espresso配方的設計概念是如何？

Tim： Scandinavians has a long tradition in buying quality coffee. This has many reasons, but I believe that a good espresso blend always starts with finding coffee that is exceptionally good alone. By mixing good coffees together, you can create something more that what the coffees taste alone. To get the right taste balance between the different coffees used and the degree of roast is very time demanding and hard work and you have to taste a lot of coffee to reach your goal. But you need a vision of what you want that goal to be. Without having a vision or a goal for the final taste, you don’t know what to look for in the single coffees either and you will end up with being more confused than satisfied.
購買優質的咖啡已經變成是長久以來北歐人的傳統了，這有許多因素，但我認為一個好的espresso配方，本來就是從尋找單品咖啡獨特風味開始的。藉由混合各種好咖啡，你可以創造出更多的單品豆所沒有的風味。要在各式各樣不同的咖啡，與烘焙度的配對組合下，找出一個正確的口感平衡點，是一件非常吃力又困難的工作，你必須經過大量的杯測過程來達到這個目標。你更需要一個敏銳的洞察力來幫助你完成組織最後你需要的配方風味，不然你會根本不知道怎麼選擇單品豆進來配方裡，徒增困惑而已。


BGT：What kind of single overriding flavour in the espresso is the worst? And what kind of flavour is your priority choice?
那一種味道出現在espresso裡是最糟糕的？而哪一種味道又是你個人的優先選擇？

Tim： The worst flavours for me would be if the espresso is stale and has a charcoal or burned flavour. I do not like overroasted espresso, nor too light so it tastes like lemon juice. I also dislike ferment, mustiness and all other defective flavours. I believe in a good balance between sweetness, bitterness and acidity and mouthfeel. Sweetness is always the taste I try to enhance the most. But without bitterness the coffee is not interesting. I prefer many styles of espresso. Right now my blend has a strong aroma of almonds and marzipan. The taste of the espresso reminds me of dried fruits. The aftertaste is very longlasting, oily and has the flavour of bittersweet chocolate. I like fruity espresso and also chocolaty espresso, but taste is individual and there is no correct answer to what an espresso should taste like. If it pleases you and stands out from other espressos, then you have probably tasted a good one, right?
對我而言，最糟糕的espresso莫過於出現不新鮮的味道，或是碳味或焦味。我不喜歡過度烘焙的espresso豆，也不喜歡太淺焙，喝起來像是檸檬汁的espresso。我當然也不喜歡發酵味、霉味和所有的缺陷風味。我堅信在甜味、苦味、酸味與口腔觸感之間，會有一個絕妙的平衡。甜味絕對是我要提升到極限的味道，但是少了一點苦味，咖啡又不夠有趣了。我喜歡各種風格的 espresso。目前我正在做的配方豆聞起來有非常濃烈的杏仁香氣（marzipan是歐洲人耶誕節常做的杏仁糖餅，被認為象徵幸福的味道），做成 espresso則有種讓我聯想到水果乾的味道，而後味是油脂感跟巧克力般的苦甜味的組合表現，餘韻綿長。我個人喜歡水果風格的espresso，也喜歡巧克力風格的espresso，但感官總是個人主觀的，espresso的風格走向是沒有標準答案的。如果你覺得喝到這杯咖啡比別的好，那就是好咖啡了，不是嗎？

 
BGT：Which one is your favorite single origin coffee? Did you use it as one of your espresso blend?
你最喜歡甚麼單品咖啡？你會用這支豆子進配方嗎？

Tim： My all time favourite is Kenyan coffee. I love the lively black currant flavour and the citric acidity it often represents. I have always had a good amount of Kenyan coffee in my espressoblends. Right now I am using 10% of a Kenyan coffee from Eeagads estate. It is an amazing coffee. I do also often find coffees that are exceptionally good and that might be my favourite at the time. Right now it is a Rwandan coffee from Bukonya estate. I also use 10% of this coffee in my blend. This coffee is super sweet with a lot of coffee blossom aroma and a delightful sweet ripe frutiness.
肯亞咖啡始終是我的最愛，我喜歡它所呈現的黑醋栗風味和檸檬酸質，我也經常在espresso配方裡有效地運用這支豆子。目前我做好的配方裡就用了10％的肯亞Eeagads莊園豆，這可是一支令人驚嘆的好咖啡。我也經常尋找其他具有獨特風味的咖啡，在當下它可能也是我的最愛。比如我目前也用了10％的盧安達Bukonya莊園豆在我新配方中，它擁有超級的甜度表現，和大量的咖啡花香，加上令人愉悅的水果熟甜風味。
 

BGT：What's your opinion of ristretto, for example, in Taiwan ,some barista like to make espresso with high volume (over 20gram or use triple basket), long extraction time and light roasted blend(before Second crack)?
你對ristretto的看法如何？比如在台灣有些barista喜歡用超過20g的高劑量，更長的萃取時間，加上未至二爆的淺焙配方。

Tim： It depends on the coffee and the occation. I have had some great shots made by Paul Bassett where he used this method, but I personally prefer a lighter texture and a longer shot when I use my own blend. I have to pinpoint that every coffee needs different brewing parameters in order to taste at its best. Therefore there is no method that are more or less right or wrong. The taste is what matters, but taste is individual, and that is why working with coffee is so much fun.(and frustrating at some times)
我想這取決於咖啡本身與使用的場合。我喝過一些非常棒的espresso是Paul Bassett用這種手法做出來的，但是我個人還是喜歡比較淡一點的，萃取量多一點的方式來呈現我自己的配方。我確定的是每一種咖啡需要不同的沖煮參數，才能喝到它最好的那一面，因此沒有一個方法是比較好或是比較差。也因為品嚐是這麼主觀的事情，所以從事這一行才會這麼有趣，當然有時也令人沮喪。


BGT： what's your opinion about Italy certifies the "official" cappuccino" and what is your idea of the volume and stracture of a cappa .
有關最近所謂的義大利官方認證的卡布其諾型態，你的看法如何？你又怎麼看待卡布的量與結構？

Tim： I believe it is important to state what a cappuccino really is. Serving a 32 oz milk based coffeedrink in a paper cup and to call it a cappuccino is wrong and disrespectful to Italian culture. I don’t mind people drinking such a thing, but I believe it is wrong to compare it to a cappuccino. I believe we need to educate the people about quality coffee. This is hard to do when most of the espresso drinks served around the world is 99,9% milk and 0,1% coffee.
我覺得去界定卡布其諾到底該是怎樣的東西，這點是很重要的。一份32oz的加奶飲料裝在外帶紙杯裡，如果說它是卡布其諾，不但是個錯誤，也是對義大利文化的不敬。我不在意人們喝這樣的東西，但是不該拿來跟卡布其諾相提並論。我相信我們需要教育人們有關優質咖啡的知識，當然推廣這並不容易，目前全世界的市場上加奶飲料仍然是壓倒性的懸殊比例。


BGT： Do you believe milk-based espresso drinks need a different (and possibly more forceful) blend than straight espresso or ristretto drinks do? How many blend will you serve in your espresso bar?
你覺得加奶飲品需要另外不同的配方，來跟純飲espresso或ristretto做區隔嗎？你會在自己店裡提供幾種配方？

Tim： Yes, my new blend is not dominating enough in a cappuccino. Therefore I need to make another one that will taste more coffee in milk based drinks. I will have 2 standard blends in my espresso bar and also various single origin espresso to offer.
我認為是有必要的，目前我的新配方並沒有足夠的支配力在卡布其諾的表現上，因此我需要研發另一個配方，來讓加奶飲品上能更凸顯咖啡本身的味道。我將在店裡使用二種標準配方，並有各種單品espresso的供應。

一個不到30歲的年青人
一身頂尖的專業吧台技藝
一派謙遜宏觀的冠軍氣度
一顆對咖啡事業熾熱的心......

Tim Wendelboe，1998進到Stockfleth's工作，2001、2002的WBC亞軍，2004 WBC冠軍，2005 WCC（World Cup Tasters Championship）冠軍，這些頭銜只不過是他精采人生的一部份而已。

幾經聯繫，我們很榮幸得到與Tim對談的機會，從他的咖啡啟蒙之路，自我訓練，WBC參賽的歷程，聊到他的沖煮觀念，品嚐喜好，一路談到業界大環境，談到他的理想堅持，他的生涯未來。字裡行間，滿是他真誠的流露。

BGT office會將訪談內容依序播出原文與大家分享，並針對議題來討論。敬請期待。

最後也衷心感謝Tim百忙之中，還願意撥冗接受BGT的訪問，我們也祝福他，在這條他抉擇的路上能鴻圖大展。

此篇主題已經被移動到 Macchina.

http://www.baristaguildoftaiwan.org/index.php?topic=41.0

早年網際網路不太發達的時代，咖啡討論必須依附在美食論壇裡，直到1994.3.21有了alt.coffee的出現，咖啡人終於有了自己的園地。alt.coffee剛起步的時候，花了數年的時間來建立大家對於咖啡基礎認知的水平，但是那個階段裡所有的資訊面是仍在業者手中，而且是在較有歷史、規模較大的業者身上，雖然illy跟Schomer的叢書相繼問世，貢獻了一些觀念性與實務性的資訊，但也常見新興業者或玩家，因為基礎理論模糊，而充斥錯誤的解讀或過度延伸。所幸，有一些很雞婆的業界職人願意花時間上網，來替大家一步一步做概念紮根和導正，這其中不乏知名業者。

上週是Al's Sweet Spot Rule發表七週年，一些歐美知名職人都在blog或是各論壇回憶這段往事........
2000年的3月，一切都因為那時還很菜的Mark Prince轉貼了一篇報章花絮開始，討論從義大利espresso的標準定義，到Mark的義大利見聞，最後有人搬出Schomer書中的章節，話題突然轉到ristretto這個名詞上......正當大家開始有點霧煞煞，懷疑東懷疑西的時候，Al Critzer（曾任職illy USA、Cimbali）加入了這個討論串，他提供了一個經過業者大量測試的歸納結果，並且為ristretto做了註解。對他而言可能不感覺到什麼特殊意義，因為一般相信這並非他個人獨到的見解（他自己也說This info was passed on to me by Dr. illy and his disciples, so I guess it is an Italian way of thinking as well as the single most respected scientific mind in the field of espresso. ），他可能只是一個傳播資訊的好心人而已，但絕對是當時網路論壇的經典大事件。他告訴了一大堆有研究咖啡熱情，卻缺乏正確理論基礎的人，一個可以朗朗上口的口訣。他所講的那幾段話，之後這些年經過千錘百鍊，不但是歐美最有共識的espresso觀念，甚至後來幾乎所有能在網路上看到的萃取文獻都以此為藍本，被稱為：Al's Rule，『艾爾鐵則：甜蜜點公式』。

原文如下：
It seems that everyone's close, but pretty much all around it. As I was trained, the perfect espresso is 30ml in 30sec. That's assuming that all other factors are in line. For longer extractions, the contact time of water to coffee would have to be lessened so that undesirable elements associated with overextraction wouldn't be present in the cup. With shorter extractions, the water to coffee contact time would have to be increased to ensure that underextraction doesn't occur. This is accomplished by grind adjustment. A good rule of thumb I have developed is this: For every 5ml of espresso above 30ml, subtract 1 sec of extract time. By this formula 1 1/2oz (45ml) would require 27sec extraction, 2oz (60ml) would require 24sec, etc. The same holds true in reverse. This will find the sweet spot in espresso regardless of volume in the cup (within reasonable limits of .75oz to 2.5oz), as you are optimizing extraction to the desirable elements, maintaining the balance between under- and overextraction. For some reason, grinder adjustment and it's crucial impact on espresso is the most difficult concept to explain and grasp in all the trainings I do.
大意是

• 以30cc/ 30sec得到一杯完美的Espresso的結果為出發點。這二個數值當然視豆子而定，烘焙方式、烘焙度、配方比例的差異自然會導致基準點的變動。
• 萃取量與萃取時間互為反比：
  當萃取量越多的時候，咖啡粉與熱水接觸的時間必須越短（避免過度萃取）
  反之，當萃取量縮減，咖啡粉與水接觸時間要增加（避免萃取不足）
• Al公式：每增加5cc的萃取量，萃取時間要減去1sec。反之，則要加上1sec。
  例如，萃取量增加到45cc時，30-(45-30)÷5=27，萃取時間縮減為27sec。
  萃取量60cc時，萃取時間變成24sec。
• 這個公式在0.75-2.5oz的Espresso合理限定內，都能迅速正確的獵取甜蜜點（Sweet Spot），有效地抓到令人滿意的成分，並維持過度萃取與萃取不足之間的恐怖平衡。
• 控制的方式以調整研磨粗細為主要手段。

至於那個年代也有爭議的ristretto定義，Al Critzer也順便做了他的解釋：
As to ristretto. This a different drink altogether. If your grinder is set for regular espresso, and you choose to stop the pour at 25ml, this is simply an underextracted espresso. You haven't hit the sweet spot yet. The " restricted" part referred to as ristretto is not so much related to volume as it is to water flow through the coffee puck. The ristretto that has been used for cuppings is a 25ml cup in 30-35sec. This extraction intensifies the organoleptic perceptions of the eyes, nose, taste buds and upper pallate to better isolate the positive attributes of a given blend. Where the positives are accentuated, the negatives are exacerbated as well. The extractions are characterized by a very thin mouse's tail with rich, dark brown crema. Most people don't drink this as their everyday drink, but it is helpful in developing blends. If you customarily drink 25ml (or 50ml doubles), your grinder should be adjusted accordingly. Damn, I did it again....

• ristretto是一種跟正常espresso截然不同的飲料
• 如果研磨不變，用正常的espresso流速，提早結束萃取，比如說原先的30sec/ 30cc流速下，只取25cc，這就是一杯萃取不足的成果，因為還沒到達甜蜜點
• 所謂的ristretto就是受限定的意思（restricted），習慣作法是25cc/ 30-35sec
• 所有感官上能察覺的感受，包括眼睛看到的、鼻子聞到的、舌頭嚐到的，不論是好的味道，或是壞的味道，都被加重呈現
• ristretto的表徵是老鼠尾巴特別細，加上更深褐色的crema
• 大多數人不會每天喝這種東西，但是有利於仍在發展中的blend
• 如果你就是習慣要喝ristretto的人，不管是25cc或是50cc，那你的研磨就要去對應調整。怎麼調整？一樣啊，Al' Rule重新來過吧

Al Critzer當時在討論串裡與知名業者Dr. Joseph John（Josuma Coffee Company）的另一段對話也很經典：
Dr John,
you didn't mention if this was done with the single filter or double. I'm hoping it was with the single. I personally am of the opinion that any espresso (single) should not be less than 25ml. A 1/2 oz (15ml) espresso has proved impossible for me to make in any drinkable state.
這裡Al等於是重申了他的公式是在setting work的最初，採用single basket沖煮的數據來作為推算的依歸。也就是縱然你的店裡平時出杯都是使用double濾器，single濾器仍然是設定的基準。而他個人經驗看法中，任何espresso（指single）都不應該少於25cc。一杯15cc的espresso對他而言，是無法達到『可以喝』的狀態（drinkable這個字離好喝還很遙遠） ，這也等於對後來一些喜歡30cc double ristretto的人提前做出了忠告。

以上整個相關討論串，仍然可以在alt.coffee 找的到，Al Critzer當時用的ID為ACKC3380。

......................
延伸閱讀

Jeremy R. Thompson的 How Al's Rule Saved My Life
Jim Schulman的 'extraction space' of espresso

本次主題：煮出正確的esprersso與裝、整、抹、填、4大動作示範！

課程說明：煮好espresso是吧台手的重要任務，一杯好的義式咖啡由espresso開始，而裝、整、抹、填(dose、leveling、tamping)

是煮好espresso的基本動作，我們將邀請經驗豐富的講師為您示範，同時上課學員亦需實地操作！

日期與場次：
台中場：3月22日晚上19:30(週四)，地點在歐舍咖啡,(台中場已額滿！)
台北場：3月29日晚上19:30(週四)，地點在百懋公司
講師：台中場歐舍咖啡經理李美娟、台北場百懋公司曾伊慧

報名：台中場電話(04)23750203、台北場電話(02)25041425
參加對象：咖啡吧台人員、或想參加TBC大賽人員 (請選擇台中或台北,勿重複報名)
費用：台灣咖啡協會會員優先且免費(每家公司限兩位)，非會員酌收場地費200元

主辦單位：台灣咖啡協會、百懋公司、歐舍咖啡
協辦：BGT咖啡論壇